Curse

Kawai · May 08, 2006, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Ok just recently i got out of a barrage/pet farming group in the ToPK as a healer monk. Most of the other players in the group were in the same guild and me as an outcast, but that doesnt matter... Basically there was a MM necro that started to complain that my healing sucked.

I can hardly say i monk the best, but i had kept the team alive for the entire game except on the last map where a ranger got hit by 2 eviscerates in a row and also when we pulled darkness and the left side group of mobs came along. This MM was like " have u ever healed an MM before " .. they were an N/Mo with BoTM , Verata's Sacrafice , Heal Area with OOB elite. I had Mo/Me with WoH, dwanyas, orison, healtouch, inspired, veil, and mend condition / rebirth. 16 healing, 8 inspiration, 10 divine, 4 prot.

Basically they would be sacking themselves every 2 seconds with BoTm to keep their minions up and it almost felt like a constant use of one of my 3 healing skills for 5 energy every time. And my orison/dwaynas would be almost negated by one BotM healthwise. It almost became frustrating as i would have to try n keep the rangers alive while they constantly sacked... They didnt even have a health regen skill or anything.

So here comes my question.. what did i do wrong as a monk? i was healing them with most of my skills althougth one time while i was healing the rest of the party they ended up sacin emselves to death lol. Why couldnt they just bring a healing skill such as blood renewal or breeze? At the end of the farming party and we returned to ToPk they said "you ****ing suck" and then i got kicked. It irritates me how people always say things and then just dont have anything to back it up, i would take that i sucked if they could provide me with an explanation of what i did wrong and how i could of improved, and i also got people through the mission with hardly any deaths. Funny thing is i got victos axe 20/20 that time :P Perhaps the MM was just pissed about their recent nerf. So does enyone else care to share their experience monking in ToPk barrage /pet teams?

Lurid · May 09, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Honestly it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong, anyone too stupid to not sacrafice themselves to death deserves to die. Its fairly obvious that if everyone else in the group is taking heavy damage, maybe they should not sack for a few seconds. Evidently they just don't realize how much work it can take, especially when something goes wrong with a pull or otherwise.

Of course the general rule in ToPK is, "heal mm first, rangers are second heal them equally, and last being the Orders". I got called...lets see here..."the worst, most nubbiest healer, ever." Simply because they pulled a group both left and right, i'm trying to heal through the first barrage and the MM starts getting hit. I heal him, he backs off some and lets the minions tank, then he loses controll of their health and they break for him. Instantly making my job several times harder, since we no longer have pets or minions as meat shields. Somehow when the _only_ thing he's there for fails its my mistake?

Then they wonder why I get mad and leave, because there are literally at any given moment 4 - 5 B/P groups looking for a Monk, so there is zero need for me to heal these guys almost non-stop and then get ridiculed on it. I'm not trying to rant, rather to talk to people who i'm sure have gone through this about how ignorant it really is. Somehow when anything goes wrong, no matter if its the biggest fluke ever, or completely someone else's fault, its our baby.

Silent Elvin Ranger · May 10, 2006, 01:29 AM // 01:29

LoL.
I dont have a monk. But i have seen monks being beatin with the insult bat.
Usually has those saying u love so much like "It's all the monks fault" , "The monk cant heal worth shit" , "he dint even heal me b4 i died" , Or my personal...usually said by the warrior "RES ME U NOOB!".

Well how about this. Tell them to get there thumb out of there butt and learn how to

1: Learn how to heal urself making u less reliable on the monk
2: Learn how not to rush in when u see "My energy is 0 out of 50"
3: And finally, as an mm myself, not to sit there tapping BoTM aboout 50 times per secondand say..."Meh, the monk can heal me"

Well its always good to let off some steam dont ya think? Keep on healing =p.

Elvin

imsystem · May 10, 2006, 09:36 AM // 09:36

well i dont see why mms use oob anyways when i was mming on those runs i never had energy problems

oh and i could keep myself healed too

Djvandal · May 10, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

If something like this happened to me i would not even waste my breath explaining i did nothing wrong

"good luck with your next monk" map back to town

Your gonna find idiots no matter where you go and as a monk you can pick and choose groups because so many are "Looking for monk then we leave"

In the time it takes to explain it was you that did nothing wrong you could be well on yru way with a group that possibly does not suicide

YudaiNao · May 11, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I tried playing a MM on my necro for a while, and the rate at which you have to sac to keep your minions up is obscene, particularly later in their lifespans. For the hell of it, I tried sitting around with about 6 minions, and just using BotM and Healing Breeze (all points in death and healing) to try and keep both my minions and myself alive; it fast became an exercise in futility. NO monk should be forced to try to cope with that kind of strain. Either the necro needs to figure out a way to be self-sustaining (barring external damage) or forget about it.

Jetdoc · May 11, 2006, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Easy - make sure you have an orders necro that is spamming Blood Ritual on you, and you should be able to heal your MM to your heart's content.

Pick Me · May 11, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

Honestly it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong, anyone too stupid to not sacrafice themselves to death deserves to die. Its fairly obvious that if everyone else in the group is taking heavy damage, maybe they should not sack for a few seconds. Evidently they just don't realize how much work it can take, especially when something goes wrong with a pull or otherwise.

Of course the general rule in ToPK is, "heal mm first, rangers are second heal them equally, and last being the Orders". I got called...lets see here..."the worst, most nubbiest healer, ever." Simply because they pulled a group both left and right, i'm trying to heal through the first barrage and the MM starts getting hit. I heal him, he backs off some and lets the minions tank, then he loses controll of their health and they break for him. Instantly making my job several times harder, since we no longer have pets or minions as meat shields. Somehow when the _only_ thing he's there for fails its my mistake?

Then they wonder why I get mad and leave, because there are literally at any given moment 4 - 5 B/P groups looking for a Monk, so there is zero need for me to heal these guys almost non-stop and then get ridiculed on it. I'm not trying to rant, rather to talk to people who i'm sure have gone through this about how ignorant it really is. Somehow when anything goes wrong, no matter if its the biggest fluke ever, or completely someone else's fault, its our baby.

I have to agree with Lurid. You didn't do anything wrong. While I don't know what ToPK stands for, I do know the pain of a monk. My monk usually in a group of 8 (doing any quest) is the only monk or at least the only healing monk. People call me noob when the group "thinks they are invincible" and agros like 15 monsters or so. So when 1 party member dies, they blame me for it. If I lose only 1 person in an agro like that or worse, I think I did a good job.

I also play an MM, a warrior, and a ranger, so I know if I die, its because 1) its my fault for not looking at my health, 2) the monk is healing other people so, I sacrificed my life for the team.

As an MM, if I don't bring any type of self healing (like taste of death), then I make sure I don't sacrifice myself to death. People who do should announce their health to get the attention of the healing monk.

With so much action going on, fighting, other players being attacked, you must make sure you aren't being attacked, healing can only go so far. That and the fact that if there is no BR or BiP, then your energy is limited, which means if you are out of energy, then no healing for anyone. People should learn to respect a healer trying to heal. You may not get a lot of praises (I usually get 1 every week.

), but if the group keeps bickering amongst themselves or yelling at you for not healing them, leave them. Let them try to complete a mission without a monk. But let them know that you are trying, and for them to help you out by not agroing too many.

I've explained that to several groups, and they did try to lesten the agro. I told them it was appreciated, and because of the less agroing, we all survived.

Remember, try to keep the lines of communications open, especially with pickup groups.

Cadmann · May 11, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Easy - make sure you have an orders necro that is spamming Blood Ritual on you, and you should be able to heal your MM to your heart's content.

Presuming that the monk and orders can agree on how far back to stay. As orders I typically BR the monk at the beginning of battles and the MM at the end of battles. The logic being that the monk needs the regen as the fight goes, and the MM when the death's end. The biggest problem I've had with the Monks in this case is that they go far closer than they need to do healing, and as Orders I'm waaaaayyyy the heck back.

But I agree with the other stuff above. The Monk should almost never have to worry about healing a Necro's Sacrifices. As Orders I beg Monks to not heal me cause 1) I heal myself as part of my cycle, and their healing throws me off cycle, and 2) it's just a waste of energy...especially when they throw reversal of fortune on me...and I'm not being attacked.

Cadmann

TheLordOfBlah · May 12, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

If you need OOB for MM build you have problems. I can MM PERFECTLY with just death and soul reaping as my only attribs. He was wasting it on blood to get energy (which is hardly enough for one minion anyways) and losing 45% health every 4 seconds. Not to mention you said he had heal area. You did fine... people need to get off the monks asses.

BoTM=25% sac
OOB=20% sac
heal area should have kept him alive somewhat

AtomicMew · May 12, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Are you even kidding me....

You're having trouble keeping up with BotM spam? If that's the case, then you're group had bigger problems than the MM taking OOB/veretas.... Either you're a really, REALLY bad monk, or your group was noob (or maybe a combination). Since you say it's a guild group, I doubt it was completely their fault. MM's take off so much pressure off your energy, it's rediculous. BotM is essentially equivalent to 2x heal parties for 5 energy in a 1 second cast time. And you're complaining that you yourself have to spend less than 5 energy to cover it up?

Pick Me · May 12, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Kawai was having trouble keeping up healing the warriors and rangers that the MMs eventually killed themselves. If the MMs did their job (chances are they were just bone fiends) the Rangers were still open to attack (as the warriors can only hold back so many foes). The fact that the warriors and rangers were being attacked, and no doubt the party totally relied on the monk(s) for healing, they could heal themselves. If Kawai was the only healer in the group of 8 and no one helping him heal (not even doing self heals), he's running out of energy without someone giving him BiP or BR. So, lets see, 2 evicerates + melee damage + spell damage + OoP + VS + BotM = lots of damage. How is 1 monk supposed to keep everyone healthy? Damage from monsters, fine, you can't help that, its going to happen. Damage by self infliction? Suicide. If you believe that BotM = 2xheal parties, then there should be no need for a monk, as BotM = 2 healing monks (as a heal party can heal a bit in 5 seconds but since BotM recharges faster, it should be better). Guess what? No it doesn't.

If you have only 1 monk, people should help out by bringing self heals and play more defensively.

Since Kawai was also "an outsider" and most of the party was in the same guild (just not his) they are acustomed to playing a certain style, which Kawai was not aware of. Max Divine Prayers + Divine Boon + Max Heal Party is good, but no necessarily good enough. If you are constantly healing you will eventually have no energy. Not many people carry heal party because heal area or other heal spells do a better job healing.

AtomicMew · May 12, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Max Divine Prayers + Divine Boon + Max Heal Party is good

That's pretty much the worst combination you could come up with, ever.

And I didn't think I would have to explain this, but: BotM DOESN'T heal party members. Which is why it's essential to have a healer in the party. Not because BotM healing isn't efficient.

Also, please stop assuming you know exactly what happened.... Just accept that monks sometimes deserve the **** that gets thrown at them, especially when they don't know what they're talking about, and complain about "BotM spam."